Sexism In Infinity (And Why It Doesn’t Matter)

Entertainment

This is a response to one the most comprehensive articles on Corvus Belli’s sexism, by Gravitas.  His article is the #1 result if you search “sexism in infinity”, and as Gravitas hasn’t posted since 2013, I presume his opinion still stands.  This article was one of the first things I read regarding Infinity before I purchased products last year, and it was very formative of my opinion of Corvus Belli’s Infinity the Game.

But my worldview has changed quite a lot in the past few years.  A particular point of metanoia has been my beliefs regarding the sexism pervasive throughout Western society.  As someone who will be returning to university life next year,  I look forward to being vocal and jumping right into such debates.  And as long as I’m an active blogger about this hobby, I want to address this political correctness that is elbowing its way into every form of entertainment.

SexismInInfinity01

I totally agree.  The fact that people praise Corvus Belli for being highly professional and productive tells me that professional standards in the wargaming industry are very low indeed.

SexismInInfinity02

Inconsequential plots?  Price gouging?  Failure to deliver on promises?

SexismInInfinity03

Power creep?  I hope you mean power creep.

SexismInInfinity04

Oh… well.

Hell is pretty sexist.  Owned by God?  Lorded over by Lucifer?  And both are male.  And where are the females?  So sexist.

SexismInInfinity05

Okay, so let’s presume off the bat that you are correct, that there is a deeper reason to the schlock, that Corvus Belli is full of bigots.  And let’s put this into perspective.

2696104-child_drinking_dirty_water_water_aid_photo-burkina_faso

Depending on which estimates you take, between 600 million to 1 billion (figure 1 in 10) people do not have access to clean drinking water.

vbk-08-poverty_jpg_1988849f

About 300 million (1 in 20) people can’t afford (or otherwise don’t own) shoes.

3233462378_9081bf736b

Conservative estimates put 2.4 billion (at least 2 out of 7) people without basic sanitation.

drccholeraforstorypage

88% of all deaths worldwide are from preventable diseases.

2013810174134256580_20

5.5 billion people (80% of the world’s population) lives on less than $10 USD per day.

90481232_mediaitem90481231

130 killed and 670 injured by Islamic attacks in the European Union, in this year alone.

You are offended by a miniature pinup girl.  This is what we become activists over?

I’ll tell you what, man, I have a hard enough time caring seriously about my neighbors.  I do not care about a few girls being offended by Infinity.  This is not serious problem, you screwball.

SexismInInfinity06

Look, there are examples of sexed-up male characters in Infinity…

kasymbegscene3

I have male body of average weight, and my body does not look like these sculpts, therefore these sculpts normalize an unrealistic body image, are sexist, and should be banned.  I demand change.  Get to it, Corvus Belli, or else:  I will write an article.

280172-0527_2

The fuck is this!  The skirts don’t even go past their knees.  And they’re not even wearing leggings.  Men in mini-skirts.  Fucking sexualized sexist marketing.

280565-0438-maqueta1

Let me guess:  you would say the Iguana Penis is not “male sexual objectification”, but a symbol of the normalization of male power.  It probably supports rape culture.  Right?

280805-0233_2

By bearing the Deva’s arms, but not his body, this art communicates that the Deva is a sexual being, but not free in his own sexuality.  The hypersexualized muscles and bulging upturned groin turn the character into an unrealistic sex object, and the handless arm suggest that male sexuality as being something to be acted upon, but that cannot act upon itself in an autosexual nonheternormative masturbory way.  This oppressive sculpt is ableist towards the disabled and sexist towards males… see?  I can do this, too.  It’s easy.  You can bullshit about offensiveness on anything.

…but we do not complain.  I suspect that you are not as sensitive to sexualized male models, as that we are a sexually dimorphic species, it is very well-established that female sexuality is subconsciously tied to visual representation, whereas male sexuality is historically more nebulous and is represented by power, prestige, wealth, confidence, or security, and tends to be far less dependent on physical attractiveness.

I would further suspect that your concern with sexed-up females has more to do with your acceptance of feminist narrative, and less for an overall concern for equality, but as you have made no ostensible claims to a feminist ideology, I won’t push that point.  Your last sentence is telling, though: “This hobby is awkward enough without having idiots snickering over a ‘sexy’ model, or having to explain to someone why that trooper isn’t wearing any pants.”

You shouldn’t be ashamed of your hobby.  Your Reverend Moira is a toy, not your daughter.  I’ve spent the past 14 years trying to dodge the nerd label, and that was pointless—because I’m a nerd.  I may as well try to dodge being called a ginger. I spent my first year as a wargamer trying to keep quiet that I’d become a wargamer.

But you know what?  Fuck it, fuck me.  I cannot be ashamed that I play this game.  That would necessarily mean that I think it is shameful, and what would that say of my opinion of friends, strangers, and the international community who play?  No.  No, no, no.  You are not obliged to anyone to “explain” or justify what you love.  If you love mecha manga and foot fetish porn and the expanded Star Wars universe, love it up, dude.  If your huffy friends hate Infinity, don’t invite them to the game table.  And don’t worry about changing their holier-than-thou opinion.  As Dr. Seuss said:  Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter and those who matter don’t mind.

SexismInInfinity07

I’d like to note that Yashia didn’t mind this very inappropriate undercover vice operative.  She didn’t mind it so much, she even cosplayed it:

Yashia's Chimera Cosplay!

Well isn’t she just the cutest human ever

Yes, that’s a woman under there.  She doesn’t seemed to be baffled by this sexist crap.  Maybe you should tell this clearly deranged woman to protest the miniature inequality?

Or maybe women don’t need intervention in this game?

Maybe women aren’t such sensitive fragile snowflakes?

Maybe women might even enjoy being represented in sexy ways?

SexismInInfinity08

Respectable point!  Boob armor might be a necessity for distinction, as boobies aren’t even sculpted in classical armor for women.  Put a helmet on realistic armor and you’ve made distinction even more difficult.  As a cartoonist, though, I find hip-to-waist ratio to be the easiest sign for lady characters—though traditional signs like boobies and eyelashes work great, too.

Boob armor annoys me for a totally different reason.  Boobs aren’t made of cartilage, of course, and simply don’t need a solid metal carriage.  And armor—even medieval armour—is designed to stop, soften or deflect blows.  The beautiful curves of fluted Gothic and Italian armour were made for this purpose, to guide strikes away from the wearer.  But boob armor would actually guide strikes and projectiles toward the wearer, steering glancing blows and projectiles toward the sternum or throat.

In other words, it would undermine itself.  It annoys me for the same reason the Seraph sculpt annoys me, but Corvus Belli does as they please.

What

Why do you have a foot-length loincloth?  What robot uses a loincloth!?

SexismInInfinity09

Again, I’m with you on this one, at least in part.  From my lay knowledge of physiology, a bit of heel is good for the spine, but “combat heels” are dangerous, and ridiculous.  Paramedics would be constantly treating broken ankles.

Of all the sculpts in Tohaa, only one female is pointing her primary weapon in an aggressive manner.  Aelis Keesan, Neema Saatar, Lady Rasail, the starter Clipsos, and the entire Kamael box are doing nothing threatening with their weapons.  We were shown badass art for Neema Saatar, and got a goofy-ass poledancer for a sculpt.  And damn it, I like aggression in my aggressive faction.  Probably why Dude Rasail is my favorite sculpt.

Though I don’t mind sexy women in a game, and I don’t want everyone posed like the HMG Intruder―and on the whole it really isn’t a big deal―I do think there is a bit of a visual Freudian slip when all the women that are here aren’t here to fight.  But I may be projecting a bit, and granted, I’m only considering Tohaa.  And again, this is just a game.  Not worth getting offended over.

Basically—my ire is motivated by realism, not political correctness.

SexismInInfinity11

Now, these are older sculpts, so one might say that this point doesn’t count due to obsoleteness―but I think you would quickly say that the Nazarova Sisters are even worse, due to the wet T-shirt paintjob.  This goes back to your previous points and I would say the same thing.  Some people—other people who are not you—like sexiness in their fictional wargame.  As for me, a lack of realism is annoying, but harmless.

Anyway, getting rid of “Tactical Rocks” and “Power Fists” is higher on my annoyance queue than asscracks and cleavage I can greenstuff or T-shirts I can just paint without nippage.

SexismInInfinity13

It’s not really “depressing”, is it?  I mean, I would think you use the term in hyperbole, but given how serious and scornful the rest of your article is, I imagine it does depress you a bit.

You know what depresses me about this wargame?

Nothing, really.  It’s intended to be fun.

SexismInInfinity14

I feel you.

SexismInInfinity15

And here is why people lose their temper at social justice warriors, feminists, authoritarian leftists, authoritarian right-wingers, religious zealots, and politically correct thought police.

So there is something that you find embarrassing and distasteful that, instead drawing the line at attempting to persuade others to your opinion, you demand that your opinion be accepted, by everyone, and defame anyone else who does not accept your opinion as an evil bigot.

I don’t get to speak for all Tohaa players.  Just like you do not get to speak for all fans and consumers of Infinity.  And you don’t get to control this company.  You said it yourself:  vote with your wallet!

You know what I don’t get my kicks from?  Manga.  You know what I don’t waste my time reviewing?  Manga.

Do you realize how many players aren’t “horny 13-year-old boys” who enjoy this, and who enjoy the sexiness; or at least, don’t mind the sexiness, and enjoy the game anyway?

Infinity creeps you out.  A silly-ass inconsequential wargame creeps you out.  Jesus, I mean, just think about your life.  You know what creeps me out?  My fucking President supplicating like a cuckold to zealots who kidnap, torture, and behead my countrymen, creeps me out.  The Paris bombing, currently shrugged off by my government, creeps me out.  The Patriot Act pushed by dumbfuck President Bush, which was cursed by opponents at the time, but now both parties are hunky dory using to spy on their own population, creeps me out.  The Trans-Pacific Partnership, creeps me out.  Deforestation and extinction, creep me out.  Destruction of native landmarks, and more landmarks, creeps me out.  Coverups of Rotheram’s child abuse, creep me out.  The “truck attack” in Nice swept under the rug, creeps me out.  The taharrush rape party in Cologne, creeps me out.  Twitter’s Orwellian speech police, creeps me out.  This ex-KGB agent interview, creeps me out.  Fucking vehicular manslaughterer hero “Caitlyn” Jenner, stunning and brave as she may be, yes, creeps me out.

The world is a serious place, and Infinity is an escape for fun.  How small is your world if this tiny little anime game with midriff, ass, tits, and too-tiny guns can creep you out?

SexismInInfinity16

Yes.

Oh, fuck off, this is one of my favorite minis.

SexismInInfinity17

Hey, this is awesome.  You did counterpoint yourself, and playing devil’s advocate is a mark of intellectual integrity.  However, after reading that article, I must point out that your message there was not, “This may not a big deal after all,” it was, “Corvus Belli may be making the right moves toward representation that I prefer.”  And then I read the comments:

SexismInInfinity18

I’ve never deleted a comment on my WordPress here, and I never will, unless the comment is a spambot or ads.  I think moderating comments is babyish and patronizing.  And I’m betting your deleted comment wasn’t spam, but someone you strongly disagreed with, as comment censorship is such a default way for social justice warriors to wage debate.  You say:

I’m not trying to be anyone’s knight in shining armour, I just don’t want to buy skeevy miniatures, or be associated with bullshit like that.  It’s not too much to ask!

Yes, Gravitas, it is too much to ask.  You want a company to change their entire product line to fit your puritan morals.  You’re not an executive at Corvus Belli.  You’re just another consumer.  The only real power you have, as a consumer, is what you buy.

If you don’t want to buy skeevy miniatures, don’t buy skeevy miniatures.   If you don’t want to “be associated with bullshit” like this, guess what, fucker?  You don’t have to play it.

I’ll bet my shiny new Kaauri you really are trying to be somebody’s knight in shining armour.  You are the same dude who said that you have to explain to others why your miniatures have titties and combat heels.  Look, you don’t need to explain shit to those cunts.  You’re not hurting anyone by playing this game.  And if you’re embarrassed and can’t help being embarrassed, fucking chin up, and be an adult.  You’re playing a goddamn miniature anime game.  Let the rest of world who enjoys this game, enjoy this game.

The commenter Unknown goes on to say:

Females generally lack the physical strength, stamina, and overall aggression men have. Now of course there are exceptions, but they are just that, the exception. And before I get flamed for being sexist, I’m not saying women are worth less then men or something like that, just we are not the same, so why pretend we are.

To which you reply:

Your post is just.. confused (and also sexist!). So men and women have slightly different physiologies. So what?  But then again you pretty much did say women can’t be soldiers.

Did he!  What a terrible deluded sexist.  I can’t believe it.  Literally:  Unknown actually said there are exceptions, that it expressly wasn’t an absolutist statement.  Unknown is not sexist—Unknown is informed.   You, however, have your wagging social justice fingers in your social justice ears.

IgnorancePlz

You really believe that, before the advent of telecommunications, men organized a worldwide patriarchy that oppressed women by keeping them out of warfare?  You really believe women throughout history really wanted to fight deadly wars, and the mean old men didn’t let them?  Like war was a fun game, and men were the cool kids?  Is my statement even kind of a strawman?  Does that statement even need a rebuttal?

You want this game to be realistic?  You’d be looking at about 3% to 5% female combatant models.  Unknown was right:  Women have always been underrepresented in war.  Not because men were more “awesome”.  Exactly 0% of soldiers I have known said that war is a privilege.  Usually I hear that war is awful, very occasionally I hear about something that was awesome, but most of the time I don’t hear anything at all, because they don’t like to talk about war.  If you can’t imagine why men have fought far more wars than women, then consider the following:

Archaeologist’s Explains Male Dominance in War

US Marine Corps Pressured to Lower Fitness Standards to Encourage Women to Join

World’s Strongest Women Loses to Men in Arm Wrestling, 2 out of 3

Men have almost 100% greater muscle density than women

Young boys innately prefer “aggressive” toys, and young girls prefer “social” toys

Baby boy chimps prefer classically masculine toys

Women have a lower average pain threshold

Or, don’t consider anything.  Just sit in your echochamber.   Tickle your ears with other westerners without real problems, bitch about your entertainment, bitch about a luxury hobby that you find creepy and depressing and sexist, which the rest of us just find fun.

You know, I never really thought these sorts of complaints were an issue until I saw Anita Sarkeesian get a Gaming Ambassador’s award.  You really want to bring this shit into wargaming?

FuckingFeminists

People play a wargame about shooting and killing for fun, for fun, Gravitas.  Infinity the Game has caused as much actual misogyny as it has caused gun violence.

ClassicalNeemaBanner

And for fun, here’s the lovely Neema Saatar á la Alexandre Cabanel’s Naissance de Venus.

Happy hobbying.

Advertisements

20 thoughts on “Sexism In Infinity (And Why It Doesn’t Matter)

  1. This was a great read and I totally agree with you. It’s hilarious because the owner of the FLGS where we normally play is aligned with what Gravitas believes, even when the women in our gaming group (one being my gf), specifically chose their factions because of the sexy women (2 Nomads and an Aleph)

    Like

  2. First World Problems…

    Is like feeling discriminated because males figures are always with muscle and you could say: “c’mon a hacker must be as skinny as me! This is discrimination!”. Discrimination my balls! That guys thinking is like: “boys plays with boys and girls with girls”. As someone above said, even girls like sexy girls miniatures…

    Liked by 1 person

    1. That’s a really good spin on it. The crazy thing is, if we skinny dudes were making discrimination complaints like these guys, we’d be demanding that all hacker models be modeled skinny. I really don’t mind people having differing opinions, but it’s appalling how insulting and demanding the social justice warriors are about everything.

      Like

  3. The problem with you holding up the bulky male figures as an example of how both genders are equally sexually objectified is that, in the words of Luke McKinney, “Near-naked superhorny women is a male fantasy. Being a hulking Adonis who can punch through tanks is also a male fantasy.” The male figures aren’t shown as less than badass- they’re manly manly men who stop bullets with pectoral muscles and floss with barbed wire. The equivalent female figures are fucking bent over like hookers in inhuman, uncomfortable poses, wearing ridiculously impractical, stripperiffic “armor”- short shorts, skirts that don’t even pretend to cover their ass, underboob t-shirts they’d flop out of in a second, etc, etc, etc, etc.

    Imagine a male model dressed and posed like any of the female ones up there- maybe a Highlander in a waist-length kilt, with a bright red thong on underneath, bent over sticking his ass out in the air and looking over his shoulder, finger held to his lips. Kinda ridiculous, right? Ludicrous? That right there is the problem- that would be an objectified male, instead of a sexual one. And that idea is silly, because men aren’t objectified, they simply aren’t- if they are, the idea is a joke, and played as one.

    It’s also a weight of history thing- you can find and hold up a single male sexual object if you look, sure, but the objective truth is that men have, and had, the lion’s share of the power over history, through most cultures. Women have been continuously subject to degradation, both active (“Get back to the kitchen” type stuff) and passive (“Giant boobed half-naked women who do nothing of import is EMPOWERING”).

    But honestly the biggest problem with this article is assuming that Gravita’s article is attacking you. Attacking you for liking the miniature, attacking you for liking the game, etc, etc. You come off as the guy who responds to someone saying “Hey, maybe you shouldn’t be saying ‘nigger’ and ‘chink’ constantly” with “fuck you, it’s just a joke.”

    Poeple aren’t “more sensitive” or “have less of a sense of humor”. You’re just hearing more people, and more of their opinions, because they feel safe to tell you them. You can hold up the straw of “some women like sexy female miniatures!”, but that’s a straw in 2 ways- firstly because it’s a personal opinion of the percentage of women who find highly sexualized miniatures acceptable or not, and secondly because these miniatures aren’t just “sexy”, they’re “sexually objectified”- they don’t do anything other than be sex objects.

    Overall, you’re complaining about how he’s taking time out of his day to complain. You don’t see the cycle about that? Even if you think he’s wasting his time trying to change something that doesn’t need changing, whining, whatever… Aren’t you wasting more time trying to stop him?

    There’s a lot more I could go on about- how you cite an article saying “boys like more aggressive toys”, which ignores teh social norms telling girls they can’t like “boys toys” or how certain hobbies “aren’t ladylike”, etc, etc, which offers a solid reason for WHY boys get aggressive toys, girls don’t”, or how “First World Problems” is a diminutive and deliberate way to trivialize someone else’s problems. If you broke a leg, would it help at all for me to say “Well that guy over there got both of his legs cut off by a tractor! You and your fucking First World Problems, god…”? You can only deal with problems in which you have a stake, and interest, and ability- I can rationally be unhappy about the whole political situation in Greece, but I don’t have the necessary context and empathy derived from it to really do anything meaningful about it.

    I guess the final point is claiming “Everything’s fine, it doesn’t need to change, everyone else likes it, why are you making such a fuss?” has been the rallying cry for every outmoded line of thinking- slavery proponents claimed that slaves were happy to be owned, anti-suffragists said that women would be better off in the home, with children, without having to worry about having voting rights. There’s room for sexy of all genders in media- but not objectification. And the truth is that women are objectified much more than men. I’ll leave you with a TED talk about the objectification imbalance and the problem with the “sexy” defense of objectification:

    -Chris Foster

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Thank you for taking the time to reply, Chris! So far I have had nothing but affirmation, but I was sure some readers must have disagreed. 🙂

      I agree that it is ludicrous to make an issue of male sexual objectification. Yet, that was the purpose of the satire. The entire premise behind Gravitas’ article was the presumption that sexual objectification is an important problem in Infinity. I disagree with that presumption, so I disagree with most of his article.

      Let’s gender swap a hypothetical Corvus Belli, run and playtested and spokespersoned by women. Would the game look the same? Probably not. The women would imagine and design what they want, and whether or not their products were born from “stereotypical female fantasies” is irrelevant to the fun value of the game, for its market, and for whether or not I should protest it.

      I prefer realism. But I also enjoy Infinity. So I set aside my protestations of realism, because I enjoy Infinity. When a chubby Symbiobomb immobilizes a mechanized infantry by a pheromone attack, the absurdity of it does not detract from my fun. I don’t even like “sexy” miniatures. I was raised in a very conservative household, and some of my puritan upbringing hangs around. But likewise, I don’t let my puritan victorian tastes detract from my enjoyment of a game that was fantastical to begin with.

      Corvus Belli isn’t motivated by realism. Take a look at their Tinbot model for the new Hector trooper. Or the cluttered hyper-pose of the new Uhlans TAG. Or gun-toting werewolf mercenaries. Or oversized anime robots. Or the “Tohaamon” Symbiobombs of the Tohaa. Even if you could make the case that their funny females were born not from a lack of realism, but from a subconscious or malicious sexism, you would still be right where you are, holding an empty sack. Corvus Belli ultimately does not care about making “realistic” models, and therefore anything is possible.

      Step back and look at the big picture. The game you decry to be sexist is not an ideology, or political party, or social movement. It is a game. Tell me: if it is not appropriate in a game to exercise your fantasy, where is it appropriate? Can you think of anything more innocuous than a game?

      Bear in mind, the changes you ask for aren’t even changes that “women” are asking for―they are changes that feminists are asking for. It is a small subset of the market that would impose this standard of social justice on a game that’s made for fun.

      Maybe I did take Gravitas’ article personally, but when writing this, I recall feeling amused, not offended. However, given the hard push from social justice warriors and feminists to change everything―superheroes, video games, bathrooms, hairstyles, everything―there is naturally going to be pushback. I am a part of that pushback. The methods of social justice haven’t even been tame or respectful. Google #killallwhitemen or #fuckparis, if you disbelieve that your side of the movement has malicious elements. I don’t like everything Corvus Belli does, but if someone maligns Corvus Belli as being malicious bigots, I’ll be one of the ones to discredit and ridicule in return.

      I did not title this article “Sexism in Infinity (And Why It Doesn’t Matter)” by happenstance. Infinity, a tiny game, should not be high on anyone’s priority for social revolution. Look to the Middle East or Africa, if you wish to fight real oppression of women.

      Everything is pretty fine. As Michael Schemer has observed, the fact that most people are complaining about Halloweeen costumes and gender repsentation in the west―in entertainment!―shows how much better civilization has become. Comparing Infinity fanboying to slavery advocacy is your own strawman. I will leave you with evolutionary behavioral scientist Gad Saad’s TEDx talk on the roots of human fantasies:

      Liked by 1 person

  4. Oh, civilization is absolutely better than it was 100 years ago! 😀 No Doubt on that- but you can’t shunt off criticism off a situation by saying “Well over here it’s worse”, or “It’s only a game”. Corbus Belli is absolutely free to make the miniatures they want, and critics are free to criticize it, both verbally (Or text, y’know, however!) and with their wallets. It’s unfortunate that the game is designed in such a way as to make a single segment of the population uncomfortable.

    Let’s hypothesize- let’s say that there was a miniature game about modern day war, and had an American faction, a British faction, etc, etc, etc, and there was a fair amount of Jewish models, who all had comically large noses, funny hats, and were half the size of other models in the game, with rules all related to money. Would that be okay? Would you defend that with “Well Jews get killed over in the Middle East, go fight that oppression instead, it’s just a game.”? If so, why? If not, why is it okay that miniatures demeaning women are okay instead?

    I also absolutely don’t believe that the folks at Corbus Belli are bigots, or that you are. Neither you or them are malicious. Unfortunately, the most insidious type of sexism, racism, and biases are unconscious. You don’t hire any black people, but it’s not because you’re racist- you just liked the other candidates better. You’ve never promoted any women working for you, but that’s because you don’t feel like they have long-term investment and commitment.

    There’s a tendency of people to assume that criticism is attacks on themselves- that someone saying something they are doing is something they are. For example, telling someone “Hey, using that fake Hindi accent is kinda offensive” often gets responded to with “I’m not racist!” no one was saying that you are- what you are is not what you do. Just because a few miniatures are sexist, doesn’t mean that the maker is sexist, like that’s all that they are.

    I’m not worried about realism in my games. Hell, to be frankly honest, I’m not worried about the trope of the femme fatal/sexual weapon. there’s nothing wrong with a “seductive” female character using wiles and sex appeal. the problem comes when almost all of the female characters in the game are like that. When you get teams that invariable have the “big guy”, the “tech guy”, the “planning guy”, the “sneaky guy”, and “the girl”. When almost all media tells a segment of the population that the they’re valued only for the physical appeal they have, for the value they add to men. When almost every female character in every form of media has no agency (The capability of the character to act on their own initiative, for their own goals and motives, rather than just existing to assist others). When there’s still a prevailing tendency that the male protagonist “wins” the single main female character as a matter of course.

    As for civilized/uncivilized revolution and change, no movement is ever fully civilized. For any faction or philosophy, you can find extremists, from religion of every stripe to politics to race to sex- I can just as easily point out men who believe women should be forcibly circumcised, raped (See: Return of the Kings movement), stripped of suffrage, etc, etc. And unfortunately, the current situation is not one of equality: Are there any politicians stating sexist quotes against men of a level equaling things like:

    “If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.” – Rep. Todd Akin (R-Mo.) in 2012 interview

    “Money is more important for men. Take a hypothetical husband and wife who are both lawyers. But the husband is working 50 or 60 hours a week, going all out, making 200 grand a year. The woman takes time off, raises kids, is not “go go go.” Now they’re 50 years old. The husband is making 200 grand a year, the woman is making 40 grand a year. It wasn’t discrimination. There was a different sense of urgency in each person.” -Wisconsin state Sen. Glenn Grothman (R), while repealing a equal pay law

    Or any of the other dozens on dozens of quotes I can find? Women being told, on the political floor “Calm down, dear.” by a political rival? Criticism of First ladies and female politicians for how they dress, or their physical appearance, rather than their platforms, behavior, and statements? Or how about the constant rape scandals, such as universities covering up the rape of female students by male athletes, or constant rape in the military (Not to mention the response from a sitting Senator on that note : “the hormone level created by nature sets in place the possibility for these types of things to occur”)? How about

    It’s simply an irrefutable fact that there is major sexism in this country, the same as how there is still a major racism issue (Different topic, mind). And arguing that people should ignore what makes them uncomfortable simply isn’t realistic or in any way helpful. If something bothers me, I’ll work to change it. I am not involved in another country- I don’t live there, simply put. I don’t have the immediate agency to affect any sort of change there. I don’t have the investment in the community there. I can only change what I can, and saying that I should stop because somewhere else has it worse is at best demeaning- “You don’t have a *real* problem.”

    Final note for this one: You said “Can you think of anything more innocuous than a game?” No, actually I can’t. But the very fact that something so innocuous is so deeply flawed, so deeply biased, is a huge social issue. The games we play, the media we consume, affects our underlying psychology throughout our lives. If all I see of something in the media is a given stereotype, then I’ll begin to assume that at least certain aspects of that stereotype are true- “kernel of truth”, “based on fact”, and so on. We have to act to change all levels of inequality to really affect any lasting social change- blatant misogyny and passive sexism both.

    -Chris Foster

    Liked by 1 person

  5. “The problem comes when almost all of the female characters in the game are like that. ” But they are not.
    “But the very fact that something so innocuous is so deeply flawed, so deeply biased, is a huge social issue” But it is not so deeply biased
    “We have to act to change all levels of inequality to really affect any lasting social change- blatant misogyny and passive sexism both” – longer statement for “everything is sexist, everything is racist”.
    This is like scrupulosity – same obsessive–compulsive disorder , not in sin but in sexism. Still the same.

    Like

  6. @Wbearritter
    -“But they are not” Short list off the top of my head of females in silly poses compared to the male equivalent for the same unit:
    Reverend Moiras (Ass-baring underwear, weird “shitting on a shelf” pose, odd ass-baring cloak)
    Caledonian volunteers (Even discounting the “wet t-shirt” paintjob, a ridiculous belly shirt and cleavage, with a miniskirt, compared to cold-weather operatives in full kit and armor, in a odd saluting pose)
    Daktiri (Ass-baring sexy pose, mini skirt)
    Fusilier (Tighter pants, shorter/lighter armor)
    Kum Motorized Troops (Weird ass-up pose, thong)
    Tohaa Delegate (… weird-ass pose, basically naked in a bathrobe and bra)
    Foxtrot Rangers (Males get full armor/outfit, the single female gets a belly-baring vest, pigtails, and no sleeves)
    And that’s just Infinity, much less, say, Malifaux, where almost every female miniature has DD or bigger, thong-wearing, sexualized poses, or 40k, or PP’s convention alternates (Naked nyss bather, bra-wearing bomadier, badass male trollkin…)
    -“…But it’s not so deeply biased”. But it is! Also, okay, present facts. Show any level of equality on a gender level- sexualized male miniatures, “play like you got a pair”, a Malifaux co-creator saying “Just take defense classses” t a woman claiming she’d been receiving death threats, etc, etc, etc, etc. I’ve presented evidence. Where’s yours?
    “Everything is racist”- straw argument, no one has said that. We’re not more sensitive, you’re just getting to hear it. Did I claim that figures like the Riot Grrls, Nesse Alke, Atlanta, etc, etc, are objectified or sexualized?

    If you’d like to actually present facts, or reasoned debate, awesome- the author certainly has done a wonderful job of presenting reasoned, calm debate, and I applaud that. You, simply, have not. All you’ve done is say “no it’s not!” without any facts or counter-argument to dispute what I’ve already presented.

    Like

    1. You know what I love most on the internet in this day and age? People complaining about ‘sexy’.

      Do you know why I find this topic the most annoying bugbear in the last 10 years? Because it stinks of puritanism, neo-puritanism. Miniature games, like Infinity, are as much art as they are game. Some people only get into the hobby because they want to paint – at any skill level. Other companies like Privateer Press even have awards in casual tournaments for the best painted army, where you bonus points at events if you cos-play.

      Hell there is a thriving industry online of professional artists who paint models for people. People can commission artists to paint their models – why? Because of the visceral sense of joy you get from looking at a beautiful model painted in a beautiful fashion.

      Sure Corvus Belli doesn’t promote their game in the same fashion, they have a very solid focus on ruleset and game play. But they have a reputation when it comes to sculpts, they hire some of the best artists and sculptors to make their models. In the wargaming community online Infinity is renowned for the quality of it’s sculpts, the artistry and complexity that other miniature companies really can’t match.

      And that’s where my problem lies with arguments against sexy. Miniature games are as much about art as they are about the game – at least to some of us. Sure you will have people who only buy the most meta-relevant models in the hopes of placing in a major tournament, hell they might play with un-painted miniatures because they are only in it for the game play and the thrill of competition – and those people don’t give a shit if the model is dressed in a sexy fashion or not, you could make a model called The Turdinator and if you gave it an amazing stat line the fact it looks like a pile of steaming feces wouldn’t matter to them.

      But most people find a balance between playstyle of faction, and visual aesthetics of a faction. There is a reason I play Tohaa and not Nomads, Aliens are cool looking and Nomads look boring. Why did I pick up the Qapu Kalqi sectorial? Because Odalisques are sexy, deadly Arabian Nights style warrior women supported by some bad ass looking PMC SOBs.

      The point I am trying to make is that this upsurge in Neo-Puritanism is sickening, it’s the same bullshit that led to the Catholic Church hiding centuries worth of sexy paintings, sculptures and other artworks with a religious bent, because at one point the Conservative Right was scared that sexy art would turn everyone into maniacal sinners. These days we have the Authoritarian Left proclaiming that sexy figures – whether they are in miniature games, video games or art are going to lead to people running amok raping everyone, perpetuating domestic violence and scarring children irrevocably.

      And i’m not OK with that. I want to consume art that is visually appealing to me. Sure they is plenty of art out there designed to shock, or cause contemplation and reflection, but in this hobby that has a very high cost of entry, I want art that I find to be appealing. That means sweet Artichoke Beyonce. That mean sexy Arabian Nights warrior women wielding shotguns. That means badass looking Acontecimento line troopers who look they are straight out of Commando.

      But those are what I find appealing, other people will have different ideas about what they find cool and has a cool aesthetic and I encourage them to collect those things. For those people out there that are embarrassed or critical of Corvus Belli’s sexy sculpts – or any Miniature Gaming sculpts, I say – these things aren’t meant for you. If you don’t find these things visually appealing, find another hobby. This hobby does not need you.

      Like

  7. Apologies for the belated reply, my brother was married this weekend, so I have had a barrage of very busy days.

    To your first point, I must concede the principle. I remember the first time I had my heart broken. People would say things like, “Well, have you heard about what’s going on in Darfur?”, or, “At least you’re still young,” et cetera. A bigger flaw here doesn’t mean a smaller flaw there is not a flaw. However, it does still leave the smaller flaw being small. As I said earlier, the crux of it is that Gravitas thought the issue is worth getting worked up over, and I do not.

    “Let’s hypothesize- let’s say that there was a miniature game about modern day war, and had an American faction, a British faction, etc, etc, etc, and there was a fair amount of Jewish models, who all had comically large noses, funny hats, and were half the size of other models in the game, with rules all related to money. Would that be okay? Would you defend that with ‘Well Jews get killed over in the Middle East, go fight that oppression instead, it’s just a game.’? If so, why? If not, why is it okay that miniatures demeaning women are okay instead?”

    This one is interesting, too, but again highlights our different presumption. If there was a miniature game like that, I don’t know that I would play it, but I would not protest it. If the company wants to make annoying stereotype Jews, they can. Everyone is free to do what they want so long as it is not harming anyone. As the old American adage goes: “Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose.” As a corollary, I am sure that you, as I, find the Westboro Baptists detestable. However, I find them no less eligible for the right to free speech as you or I. If they want to be bigoted assholes, so be it. They have the agency to stay that way, although they don’t have to.

    The essential point here, I think, is that you would argue those stereotypes are “harmful”. I wouldn’t. I don’t think wargames and videogames and superheroes and action figures and dolls are harmful in that way: I hate Bratz dolls. I think Bratz dolls are bratty and sluttish and awful. But I won’t say girls can’t buy them, and if a girl bought them, I wouldn’t call her bratty and sluttish and awful. And I certainly wouldn’t go to a Bratz fangirl forum and tell them why I think Bratz are bratty and sluttish and awful. But that’s a mirror to the feminist / social justice warrior approach to objectionable content in games like Infinity.

    If you do not think Corvus Belli or fans like me are bigots, then I would strongly encourage you to stop using words like “bigoted”, “misogynist”, “racist”, and “biased” towards us. That, my friend, is at the core of the reason why people like me are becoming so vitriolic against otherwise well-intentioned progressives who wish to see bigotry end.

    For one, it is a utopian and unrealistic view to expect that such evils will ever be wholly purged. I think the Christians are right to suspect that humans are flawed, and even a bit wicked, by default. While by good manners and occasional law, we can make open bigotry a costly discredit to one’s reputation and livelihood, we cannot ban it, you understand. Nothing short of brain-tapped thought control will ever stop humanity from finding new ways to be cruel.

    For two, no one is a mind-reader. You cannot tell me that I am bigoted or misogynist or racist or biased without evidence that I am bigoted or misogynist or racist or biased. Especially, I would say, when I acknowledge that the stereotypes we see in Infinity are silly, but that I also don’t mind them. That is a conscious assertion of opinion, not an unconscious (I think you mean subconscious) opinion.

    For three, the most insidious type of bigotry is the bigotry that is consciously executed. That a store owner might subconsciously distrust blacks is far less insidious than a government that declares, justified, and executes bigoted judgment. The Holdomor, Khmer Rouge, and Al-Anfal Kurdish genocides, to name a few, are all demonstrably worse than Infinity midriffs, Marvel sausage fests, and white Oscar awards.

    I simply don’t have the time to prove to you that almost all Infinity females are not sexualized, by your definition. A quick overview on the store would say that no more than half are sexualized, by feminist standards. But again, even if 100% of Infinity females were quasi-nude and ass-up and sexy, I still do not think it would be evil. Annoying, yes, but not evil or malicious or misogynist. Words of that weight are best saved for the real evils, the real malice, the real misogyny.

    I am not a Republican, so I do not feel obligated to answer for them. Even if I was a Republican, I am still not beholden to all Republicans’ views. I would say the same about the Republicans you quoted as I have said of the Westboro baptists―they can think whatever and say they like. If they want to change policy, then I may take action. You are also welcome to say and do as you please, but for you (or anyone) to continue crusading on behalf of women who have not asked for your defense, by accusing the rest of us of conscious or subconscious bigotry, is an indecency that will be met with rebuttal or, worse, ridicule.

    “But the very fact that something so innocuous is so deeply flawed, so deeply biased, is a huge social issue.”

    I cannot agree with this. The fact that something so innocuous may be so deeply flawed and deeply biased is a very small issue. Government overspending, NSA spying, legality of financial lobbying, corporatized prisons, growth of theocracy in Europe, growth of male suicide, scientific illiteracy, inflation of academia, unemployment, deforestation―these are huge issues. I don’t come to Infinity to raise hell about social issues. I come to Infinity to have a bit of fun, and, occasionally, vent my scorn or whimsied praise thereof by cartoon or by prose.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. It’s all part of the “If you’re not with us, you’re against us” mentality that permeates anything social/political/emotional.

      By not making everything openly say and act in a 100% non-“problematic” way you’re creating rapists and new KKK members by the minute.

      Like

      1. I agree that the soft censorship of political correctness will cause more bigotry by forcing bigots to incubate themselves―but I do not think it is fair to say, “You’re creating rapists and KKK members” to Chris and people like him. It’s not that direct. Most feminists and social justice warriors, politically correctivists, etc., I think do have good intentions. Mistakes usually have a good reason. But you are right, there is an ugly tribalism to it, an attitude that wants bad guys to oppose.

        The problem I see within this new loose alliance of rationalists, classical liberals, libertarians, skeptics, atheists, Christians, and MRAs is a smug judgmentalism in the errors of reasoning and conduct we see. There is a whole cottage industry of YouTube rebuttalists that seem more interested in scorning social justice warriors than presenting counterargument. Every movement needs its bulldogs, of course, but if it becomes entirely bulldoggery, then the pendulum has swung, and we have a new problem.

        I am guessing you follow people like Sargon and TealDeer and such?

        Like

      2. I meant the second line as a joke, but I forget text doesn’t convey my waving eyebrows and tapped cigar while nudging you.

        But I agree with your perspective on the topic. As some people jump to the worst conclusion with an issue, others jump to do good when the opportunity presents itself but doesn’t realize what else changes (good or bad) that follows.

        Like

  8. Reminds me of a recent post I came across on Reddit, with someone implying that most lolicon fans are likely pedophiles in real life. Shrug, some people don’t see a disconnect between what’s fantasy and reality.

    That original Daktari is still one of my favorite minis in the range. People say she’s sexist cheesecake. I don’t know about that, I just think she looks adorable and cute. Not too many other cute units in Infinity. Symbiomates technically are, but I often feel like that was done intentionally more just as a joke due to how much CB themselves poke fun of those minis. I suppose cute units are seen as being just as detrimental to Infinity’s supposed serious tone, and I’m not sure if cute too works well in their new digital aesthetic anyways.

    Like

    1. I’m sure I have my own complaints to be embarrassed about. I used to get really worked up over things like Tohaa not having AP weapons. But at some point, I had to realize, this game is a game. Not worth getting angry over.
      The thing about the feminist/SJWs on the forum and elsewhere is that they dive straight to the biggest words they can. Not, “I would have preferred a girl sculpt”, but “This sculpt proves that CB is racist/sexist/misogynistic,” and it’s always the same complaint, predictable, on each new release. And it’s hegemonic. It’s not enough to have one respectful faction (Haqq), it must be all factions, all minis, all fluff. And I do have to think, even if CB truly is racist/sexist/misogynistic, where could there be a list harmful outlets than a miniature fantasy game? Is this the thing we become activists over?
      My words that fall on deaf ears is that I too don’t even like boob plate, combat heels, and tactical midriff. I just don’t think the people at CB (nor their customers) are evil bigots for liking them.

      Like

  9. I have a question for you : Why do you feel attacked by someone’s opinion on a subject that “doesn’t matter”, and felt the need to reply with a huge article, that detracts the whole point of the debate?
    Here I’m going to trynna answer it in a *genetal manner.
    Because do you know the problem of this article?
    You are offended. You’re feeling attacked. Not the author of thw original article you’re reaponding to.
    He, or SHE (objectification alert : who told you the blogger is a man because that person play wargames??) is simply, calmly pointing out problem.
    It wasn’t bothering you much, if it “doesn’t matter” then you should revisite your priorities.
    The point is : It’s not about Infinity. This is an example, and a small one, in a sea of example of *women objectification in Pop culture.
    This is not about “sexy”. It’s not “sexy” to go on a battlefield with a mini-skirt – frankly enough, it’s plain dumb.
    But whenever there is a female character in about any pop animes, movies, etc – the character is objectified as a sex object.
    *That is, not matter how irrelevant being sexy is considering the character’s role in the story, what matters the most in their design is presenting them as sexy women.*

    And “sexy” in a vert narrow definition. I’m a straught man, and I find a warrior girl in mini-skirt ridiculous, and a dirt-covered badass woman really sexy, but that’s not the point :
    My opinion on how sexy women characters are should habe zero influence on the character designer’s choice.
    Yes, men are objectiied too – that’s right, but they’re realistic.
    No, a hacker on the terrain working in real life for a squat or para-military team is probably mot skinny. It pretty much makes a lot of sense that this guy is veteran para or agent who acquires hacking skills over time.
    It makes a lot of sense that the men fighting in about any universes *like Infinity are badasses. And the reason why you and I enjoy moving tiny plastic or metal soldiers is partly because… don’t we all wish we could be suj badasses?
    That’s our fantasy OK?
    I’d love to wake up tommorow jackep up and ready to fight. Of course not – it’s a fantasy.
    It’s a wargaming fantasy, in a world of wargames.

    But. Why can this not be considered as a woman fantasy too?
    I know plenty of women who fantasize about being badass and oh – let me correct that – some of my friends are terrifically badass women who could wipe my ass up anytimes.
    So WHY is that there is sexual fantasy implied in wargaming, or anime, or a familial hollywoodian movie like Marvel universe’s ones?

    Playing wargames comes from ZERO sexual fantasy. In fact should I join a para-military force in real life, I bet it would be all guys sweating like pigs and dreamin about girls at night, or refusing to admit their homosexuality.

    WHY is that as a man, I am objectified too as a fucking pervert who fantasize about women in his sci-fi para-military dream team looking like pinups?
    My point is, women characters are not in the game for equality questions, in this game or about any other Pop/Geek culture universe.
    They are way too often here for men to look at them and think dirty.
    And I’m really not naughty when playing a wargame, or watching a superhero movie, or what not. Should the character be sexy for good reasons, allright, at least there’s a clear reasonable logic in the why men are represented as badasses in Pop culture.
    Yes, I would like more diverse men characters, but women “characters” are often just there for the decoration.
    Even in sexual objectification of both males and females, women are still way more objectified than us. In pop culture, magazines, selfies, what not?
    It’s obvious.

    Like

    1. I’m not the author of the article, but all I read from you (jasbatlapprentiartiste) was “Whinge whinge, whine whine”.

      People like to see attractive people. There is a famous primate study in which researchers gave monkey’s a choice between looking at a high status member of their tribe, or the option to eat. Up unto a certain point the monkey chose looking at the high status individual. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB110809169986952251

      The same can be said for people, that’s why you get cults of celebrity. It’s the heady mix of power, attractiveness and personality that captures people’s attention.

      So what am I getting at. What i’m saying is that attractive people – whether in art, sculpture or person, appeal to other people. There is incredible demand for that. Now what any individual defines as ‘attractive’ varies greatly from person to person, but the makers of Infinity (and other miniature games) rely on their artists to create figures that will appeal.

      And that’s the core of the market, and there is nothing wrong with either the demand for that or the production of that. I like my Ariadna ladies dressed in short skirts, I like my Qapu Kalqi looking like courtesans, because that appeals to me and plenty of other people. Because that’s normal, that’s what the majority of people like to see – even women like to see other attractive women (see other study here: http://www.medicaldaily.com/female-sexuality-straight-women-turned-attractive-women-are-either-bisexual-or-gay-360486)

      At the end of the day it doesn’t matter if *you* have a problem with some cheese cake sculpts. Your philosophy is designed to appeal to such a small, niche audience that screams for bizarre things – “We demand more fat womens in our games”, and if you find that appealing, great. But most people don’t and unless we undergo another dark age in which fat bodies = status -> desirability -> attractiveness. You will be in the vocal, yet ignorable minority.

      Now if you would take your neo-puritanism and kindly fuck off please. Infinity and miniature gaming does not need you.

      Like

    2. “Why do you feel attacked by someone’s opinion on a subject that “doesn’t matter”, and felt the need to reply with a huge article, that detracts the whole point of the debate?”

      A word like “attacked” is your rhetoric. I did not feel “attacked”. But yes, I did feel a need to reply with this huge article. Why I felt the need to reply with this huge article is because nothing like it existed. On blogs and on the official forum, the only stance seemed to be the feminist one. I wanted to read something like my article here, something lively and rebellious and scathing, but nothing like it existed. So I wrote it myself. I was quite stomached of the feminist stance toward Infinity’s “sexism” being the only one. And I am quite proud that Google now calculates my article to be more relevant to the search “sexism in infinity” than Gravitas’ article. My evil mission is complete.

      Now, I say Gravitas’ “stance” and not merely “opinion” because Gravitas and other feminists like him have made this game a moral issue. So not only do I say his opinion is bossy, prissy, and puritan; but I also say that his stance is shortsighted, wasteful, and ultimately incorrect.

      You say that I detract from the debate. Tell me: How is there “debate” if there is no rebuttal? How does this article “detract the whole point of the debate”? Or would “debate”, to your mind, be agreeing with Gravitas in premise and debating only in degree? Because, as I say in the huge article, I disagree with the premise, the premise that sexy girls in a miniature game is a problem.

      Understand, to rebut your premise, I need only disagree. I do not even have to advocate that sexy miniature girls are good. As I have said in the article, I do not particularly like sexy miniature girls myself. But I have not said here that sexy miniature girls are good. Rather, I argue that they are “not bad”. Not evil, or misogynistic, or sexist, or whatever term you will prefer. You see, I am not the one who has made the moral statement. You say, “This is a problem”. Like the God argument, all that I am obliged to say is, “I do not believe that it is a problem,” and the burden of proof is on you. Do you see how this works? If I argued that miniature hackers encouraged hacking and doxxing, all that you would be required to rebut me would be to say, “I do not believe that”, and it would be upon me to prove that it were true that miniature hackers encouraged hacking and doxxing.

      You say that I am offended. I tell you that I am not. But if I were offended, would that not give me moral high ground? Is not your being “offended”, and the prospective “offended” feelings of some women, the grounds for demanding change? So maybe I should say that am offended, and by your standards, we would be at an everlasting stalemate.

      You think women are so pathetically weak that a few sexy pinup girls will turn them away? How lowly do you think of women that you think a Daktari, or the little Nazarova girls, or the Tech-Bee box art, is frightening and harmful? Just how sensitive are these “beastly” women around you? These are insincere questions, because you have an insincere problem.

      You appeal to realism. Yet an appeal to realism will leave you holding an empty sack, as little to no research supports the idea of women serving direct combat roles. There are exceptions―but this is why we call them exceptions. If you feel daring, I have linked relevant points in the huge article above. So abandon the talking point of realism. (I have also expressed my dislike of the lack of realism in Infinity, but I do not make it a moral dilemma. Neither should you.)

      What of fantasy: you ask, “Why can this not be considered as a woman fantasy too?”

      The answer to that question will elude you so long as you cling to the modern superstition that men and women are identical. Men and women are not identical. Men and women are human. But we are a species with two sexes. Just as ducks, lions, ants, angler fish, and every other binary species on the planet, we have two sexes, evolved to fill two different needs for the species, and this species will always have two sexes so long as genetic novelties leave us that way. The West has stewed in equality superstitions for so long that we have nearly forgotten that women are not men. But we are beasts like any mammal. You cannot change our two genders, certainly not with rhetoric and activism. You are as helpless to change our fantasies as you are to change our tastebuds.

      Make no mistake: Wargames are a male fantasy. It is not feminine to fantasize about killing and subjugating one’s foes. A few women are exceptions, but again, this is why we use the term “exceptions”. Women are not prohibited. But it is poncey and silly to demand that they be encouraged into this fantasy. Longevity studies in women’s happiness have shown that women are becoming unhappier both absolutely and relative to men. Mightn’t one suppose it is because people like you have pressured women to be manly? Why do you think it is right to force someone to become something against their nature?

      Do you also demand gender parity in fans of Young Adult Fiction, romance novels, hospital dramas, knitting, crocheting, makeup tutorials, nail art, aromatherapy, ballet, belly-dancing, pole-dancing, jewelry-making, or cosplay? Of course you don’t. And why would you even think it evil for women to enjoy those things more than men?

      Did you consider that even though sexy women are not part of your military fantasy, sexy women might be part of the military fantasies of Alberto Abal Couceiro, Fernando Liste Azpeitia, Gutier Lusquiños Rodríguez, or Carlos Torres Rodríguez? Would you shame those men for their fantasies? By what right do you command the designers change their tastes to match yours? By what authority would you demand the parity of gender of Infinity players? Who appointed you ruler of our entertainment?

      An essay in, an essay out: Again, this has not been merely a consumer’s complaint. This complaint of “sexism”, or “misogyny”, or “objectification”, has moralized the hobby. And I call your morals petty and useless. Spend less time playing games and browsing blogs, if a literally little hobby causes you to moralize and evangelize.

      And you should know, people like me―evil bigoted misogynistic asshole douchebag sexist trolls like me―do not get offended, or sad, or angry when we write huge articles like this. We don’t write articles like this because we are morally outraged. We write to have fun. Which circles back fittingly to why we started playing a game to begin with.

      Liked by 1 person

  10. Before I launch into this, let me make my opinions on Infinity clear. I love the game and I love the miniatures. I don’t have any issue with mildly sexualised miniatures (and compared to what counts as sexualisation elsewhere, Infinity is incredibly mild), I don’t have any issues with the styling, Pin-up miniatures although I don’t buy them don’t offend or bother me. Generally speaking I support people voting with their wallets and buying the things they like while not buying things that they don’t. Conversely if Infinity were to cease making slightly sexualised female miniatures I also would not really care other than a mild disappointment that artistic endeavour was being dictated by a vocal minority. I don’t “get my kicks” from tiny metal miniatures; I’m a big boy, I have a wife and should I wish to “get my kicks” I can do so for real. This is also an important point that the majority of Infinity players are not underage teenage boys, they are grown adult males and most likely those players also aren’t getting their kicks from tiny metal soldiers.

    I think where this article falls down is not in its opposition to the article about sexism in miniature but in the argument used. The assertion that because so many people in the world live in poverty that this particular problem doesn’t matter. The fact that a greater problem exists does not mean that other, seemingly lesser problems cease to be problems. And, if I were of a mind to agree that sexism in miniatures IS a problem, the counter argument would be very simple. Corvus Belli cannot necessarily solve world hunger but it can help change sexist themes within their miniatures by producing more sensible female miniatures in future. There are many billions of people in the world all of whom have the ability to influence and affect and even solve different problems and it is for each of us to work towards changing the world for the better in whatever way we can. If you are of the mindset that the world would be a better place if female miniatures were comparable in the practicality of the appearance to their male counterparts (e.g. Gravitas), then you could rightly expect anyone who is in a position to make that change a reality to do so (e.g. Corvus Belli. This is precisely what Gravitas is doing. The fact that something can be considered to be a “first world problem” doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try and solve it. It might mean that, if we ever found ourselves in a position where resources were stretched so thinly that we could only work on solving world hunger OR sexist miniatures that perhaps world hunger would be prioritised. But we are not in that situation. There are enough people in the world to try and fix many problems at once – even those we might consider frivalous in nature.

    You made some much better points when you talked about the differences between Male and Female fantasies. Males are highly influenced by female appearance and will base selection of a mate based almost entirely on that alone. The reverse is not true of females, who are influenced much more by things like resources and strength. Males are looking for a female who looks healthy and fertile because that is what will most likely provide the greatest probability of producing healthy offspring. Females look for Males who are wealthy, powerful/strong because these are the attributes that will lead to the greatest security for her and her offspring. What constitutes “powerful” and “strong” will vary depending on the environment and culture, what constitutes “healthy” and “fertile” changes very little. So if Infinity chooses to incorporate sexuality into their miniatures lines then it stands to reason that the females will emphasise the traits on which most men select a Mate – waist/hip ratio, breasts, bums etc, whereas Males will most likely display traits that make them look athletic, strong and powerful.

    Something else that I have come across in discussions with female gamers, both in the physical and digital worlds, is that there a very broad range of opinions among women about this subject. There are the hard core, progressive feminists who think we’re all the same and that it is depictions of sexuality (such as seen in Infinity miniatures) that drives gender differences. But there are also lots of women (and it seems to me this is the majority opinion among female gamers) who prefer the glamourous sexy look and would even, if asked to choose a model to represent themselves in a game, go for a model that many would describe as “sexualised”. I think this important to recognise because you will find that in many cases what is a fantasy for one sex is also a fantasy for the other. A sexy miniatures might represent a male fantasy but it also represents a female fantasy; on some level we all have a fantasy that we represent all the things the opposite sex finds sexy. The sexy super model might be a fantasy for males in that they desire to be with a person who fits that description. But it is also a fantasy for females too, to look like that either to please the man they are with or to increase the pool of males from which they can select a mate. The same is equally applicable for men. While women may have a fantasy of strong, heroic/powerful/wealthy men men also have a fantasy of being such a person. The concept of something being either a “sexual fantasy” or “power fantasy” does not mean that it is a fantasy exclusive to one sex, more likely it is a fantasy shared by both sexes but for different reasons. Ultimately most of us desire and wish to be desired in return; it is a rare person who selfishly does not care about desire being reciprocated.

    So really, when all of the arguments are said and done, the whole subject of sexism in miniatures is not really about whether they are sexist but whether or not you wish to see sexuality, male and female, as a theme in a miniatures game (because as I said, many fantasies, certainly the ones portrayed in Infinity miniatures, are shared by both sexes but for different reasons). It’s presence as a theme is not inherently problematic and it is purely a matter of personal preference, a preference should determine which games you ultimately decide to play but that should not be forced onto an existing game to protect your own sensitivies and enable you to play.

    Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s